What would you buy instead of a 12k ?

Forums General Discussion What would you buy instead of a 12k ?

  • Post
    John Brawley
    Moderator

    This 10k price point is the first time BMD has placed such a premium price on their cameras and I’m wondering how compelling it is ?

    I have been talking to lots of different users recently and I was surprised at how
    Many G2s are out there being used away from the main markets. Smaller towns where there isn’t a large rental house, the G2s seem to be a popular rental item.

    I’d always thought of G2s as an owners camera so it’s mildly intriguing to me that it seems like it has been infiltrating the dry hire rental market.

    I wonder if the 12K will be the same ?

    JB

Viewing 11 replies - 16 through 26 (of 26 total)
  • Replies
    John Brawley
    Moderator

    I think 5 years is a stretch.

    3 years is reasonable.

    RED are held up As an example but often you don’t hear when they aren’t good.

    They are famous for only fixing major problems conditional on signing an NDA.

    In other words they make it right, but you can’t talk about it.

    I have first hand experience with this.

    And here’s a guy with a 5 year old RED who isn’t happy at all.

    http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?181385-Never-Buying-or-Shooting-RED-Again&highlight=Cluster

    JB

    Taikonaut
    Participant

    The way I view it is in terms of support I think any new cameras upto $2k should automatically qualify for 12 months hardware and minimum of 12 months feature update support (or at least make an effort to add the latest features to keep them up to speed). Cameras costing $4k gets 2yrs hardware and 2yrs minimum feature update support and so on, so a $10k camera should get 5yrs for both harwrae and faeture support. If tech development cant stretch 5yrs then some kind of loyalty scheme should be in place after 3yrs that would involve a percentage discount should the owner of the $10k camera want to upgrade or buy a new camera from BMD.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Taikonaut.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Taikonaut.
    • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by Taikonaut.

    The way I view it is in terms of support I think any new cameras upto $2k should automatically qualify for 12 months hardware and minimum of 12 months feature update support (or at least make an effort to add the latest features to keep them up to speed). Cameras costing $4k gets 2yrs hardware and 2yrs minimum feature update support and so on,

    I’ve never heard of any camera receiving that sort of support, warranty yes, depending on warranty rules for each country, but absolutely no guarantees about feature/firmware updates. Do you get guaranteed firmware updates for any known electronic product on the market? I think not. Asking for such is pure fantasy.

    That said, Blackmagic has always provided firmware updates to their cameras if the hardware in any way supports such updates. My BMPCC4Ks have had numerous firmware updates since I got my hands on the first one in Oct 2018, which have enhanced the capabilities in many ways. Blackmagic does this because they can, not because they must.

    John Brawley
    Moderator

    No one does a 5 year warranty.

    Arri do a 1 year warranty.

    For about 10% of the purchase price you can buy an extra year.

    https://www.abelcine.com/buy/cameras-accessories/camera-peripherals/arri-extended-warranty-for-alexa-mini-1-year

    And they charge you to buy licences to unlock features your camera already has.

    BMD have consistently added features at no cost. They have never ever charged for a version upgrade on DaVinci since V8 either. No subscriptions.

    JB

    Dank Pears
    Participant

    I’ll likely upgrade my UMP G1 to a 12K. Judging both the specs and the sample images it really is in a league of its own price-point wise.

    If I thought owning a Red would make me more money I’d happily buy one. But my clients are brand agnostic, and only care about the quality of the work I deliver.

    One of the things that keeps me with BM is the pocket line. Shooting interviews the 4K is dirt cheap for multi-cam, and no other brand has such a great B cam option. I considered upgrading to a C500ii but there’s just no viable b-cam for it.

    Oyvind Fiksdal
    Participant

    No one does a 5 year warranty.

    Arri do a 1 year warranty.

    For about 10% of the purchase price you can buy an extra year.

    https://www.abelcine.com/buy/cameras-accessories/camera-peripherals/arri-extended-warranty-for-alexa-mini-1-year

    And they charge you to buy licences to unlock features your camera already has.

    BMD have consistently added features at no cost. They have never ever charged for a version upgrade on DaVinci since V8 either. No subscriptions.

    JB

    I don’t know how it is in other countries, but in Norway we have something called 5-year claim right. This is not a warranty that inflict the company who made the item, like black magic, but any Norwegian seller bound by Norwegian law.

    The 5-year claim right includes repair cost, new item and/or payback up to 100% if the item deviate from expected quality or usability. It’s like an extended warranty in many ways and its quite strong for any buyer. The buyer also has the possible to use free consumer council, lawyers, that can drive the case against the seller if it becomes a problem.

    An example. If I buy a URSA12k from a Norwegian vendor and it breaks down unexpectable 4 years later, maybe sensor problem, I can try to use this claim. Some items only have 2-year claim, but that is mainly because of presumed short life expectancy.

    John Brawley
    Moderator

    An example. If I buy a URSA12k from a Norwegian vendor and it breaks down unexpectable 4 years later, maybe sensor problem, I can try to use this claim. Some items only have 2-year claim, but that is mainly because of presumed short life expectancy.

    Yeah there’s a similar protection in Australian consumer law as well, but it’s only for 2 years generally.

    JB

    punkduck66
    Participant

    An example. If I buy a URSA12k from a Norwegian vendor and it breaks down unexpectable 4 years later, maybe sensor problem, I can try to use this claim. Some items only have 2-year claim, but that is mainly because of presumed short life expectancy.

    Yeah there’s a similar protection in Australian consumer law as well, but it’s only for 2 years generally.

    JB

    Do those periods apply to business to business contracts?

    In the UK we have 6 uears for consumer cotnracts but that doesn’t apply to business customers, so anyone using the camera for work wouldn’t have those protections.

    punkduck66
    Participant

    No one does a 5 year warranty.

    Arri do a 1 year warranty.

    For about 10% of the purchase price you can buy an extra year.

    https://www.abelcine.com/buy/cameras-accessories/camera-peripherals/arri-extended-warranty-for-alexa-mini-1-year

    And they charge you to buy licences to unlock features your camera already has.

    BMD have consistently added features at no cost. They have never ever charged for a version upgrade on DaVinci since V8 either. No subscriptions.

    JB

    I don’t know how it is in other countries, but in Norway we have something called 5-year claim right. This is not a warranty that inflict the company who made the item, like black magic, but any Norwegian seller bound by Norwegian law.

    The 5-year claim right includes repair cost, new item and/or payback up to 100% if the item deviate from expected quality or usability. It’s like an extended warranty in many ways and its quite strong for any buyer. The buyer also has the possible to use free consumer council, lawyers, that can drive the case against the seller if it becomes a problem.

    An example. If I buy a URSA12k from a Norwegian vendor and it breaks down unexpectable 4 years later, maybe sensor problem, I can try to use this claim. Some items only have 2-year claim, but that is mainly because of presumed short life expectancy.

    As for my reply to John above does that apply to business to business contracts or just consumer contracts? Most European legislation only offers those extended rights to consumer contracts and so wouldn’t apply to anyone buying the camera for their work.

    Oyvind Fiksdal
    Participant

    No one does a 5 year warranty.

    Arri do a 1 year warranty.

    For about 10% of the purchase price you can buy an extra year.

    https://www.abelcine.com/buy/cameras-accessories/camera-peripherals/arri-extended-warranty-for-alexa-mini-1-year

    And they charge you to buy licences to unlock features your camera already has.

    BMD have consistently added features at no cost. They have never ever charged for a version upgrade on DaVinci since V8 either. No subscriptions.

    JB

    I don’t know how it is in other countries, but in Norway we have something called 5-year claim right. This is not a warranty that inflict the company who made the item, like black magic, but any Norwegian seller bound by Norwegian law.

    The 5-year claim right includes repair cost, new item and/or payback up to 100% if the item deviate from expected quality or usability. It’s like an extended warranty in many ways and its quite strong for any buyer. The buyer also has the possible to use free consumer council, lawyers, that can drive the case against the seller if it becomes a problem.

    An example. If I buy a URSA12k from a Norwegian vendor and it breaks down unexpectable 4 years later, maybe sensor problem, I can try to use this claim. Some items only have 2-year claim, but that is mainly because of presumed short life expectancy.

    As for my reply to John above does that apply to business to business contracts or just consumer contracts? Most European legislation only offers those extended rights to consumer contracts and so wouldn’t apply to anyone buying the camera for their work.

    Yes, it’s a bit more complicated if you look deeper into it. It’s something between what’s going on in Australia and consumer-Norway. In Norway you have 2 years claim for business bought equipment, BUT it depends also on the severity of the problem. If it’s obvious, then you can claim later. Problem is, that some companies deal you out of the claim rights. That’s actually legal as long as you accept the deal. That could mean in benefits of discounts or something else.

    Australian consumer law has changed dramatically over the last few years. Product warranties are nowadays based more on the cost and expected lifespan of a product and not what the manufacturer provides. So if you buy a $20,000 camera, the expectation is that it’s going to last more than one or two years and, if not, you have a valid claim for whatever has gone wrong to be rectified.

Viewing 11 replies - 16 through 26 (of 26 total)

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